103324-so-you-think-silver-runs-are-frustrating
Content ---- ---- ---- Do you not already have them? Adventures FTW! | |} ---- I love it and can go into Data today if we had 40 people. LOL. | |} ---- ---- Judging by the rest of the grindy nature of the game in it's current state, I think that's it's far more likely to by the latter.... And that IS a scary thought. | |} ---- Which is why people need to stop pretending the Attunement is a super power. Blizz been spilled the beans. Attunements are a sign of a unfinished product. That is why Blizz stopped needing them. They sell you the "finished" game now. | |} ---- Geeze, thanks for the tip there. I'm not sure I'll ever even see the Datascape with my own characters, but I'll make sure to try and preempt that grind, if it ever comes to that. Time to buy a few patterns. I know you're immensly disillusioned by the game, but do try to not become a "black knight" please. :) Carbine might have designed it all a bit heavy on the grind, but you can't deny they executed a vision of constant (grindy) progression. However, farming tokens from more basic content is objectively a step back after the 20man. It doesn't fit the established pattern in my opinion, no matter what you think of that pattern. | |} ---- Me too. They open and close and keep out the riff raff. Filthy commoners. | |} ---- My guild is roughly halfway through GA and I'm already at 300 Primal Patterns. It's not hard to get them. It does takes a bit of time, but in the time you spend getting silver in adventures and dungeons, you'll (likely) get a very large portion of them. And that's not even getting into the fact that you need to fully complete the 20 man before you're able to get into the 40 man. Most people that are doing on the attunement haven't even stepped into the 20 man and are sitting on a health amount of patterns. On top of that you can buy them on the CX and on the EG vendor, so it's not like you're forced to grind the dungeons/adventures hoping to get the drops. Spend 10-20 plat and get the remaining 100-200 patterns you need. | |} ---- Enter the CREDD trap... | |} ---- Ya, this doesn't make much sense. Actually, I can see 300 patterns... but only from GA, not dungeons. | |} ---- Repetitive grind is not progression. Sitting on a treadmill mechanic that's designed specifically to artificially delay your access to content on the actual progression path is not the same as progression itself. Does anyone here honestly believe that accumulating primal patterns in any way improves your character or your personal player skill at the game? All it does is either force you to grind plat to buy them, or grind Vet adventures and dungeons ad-nauseam. I suppose it could be a way to force players to hone their skills in adventures and dungeons, in addition to grinding out perfect rune slot equipment drop. But there are a couple of flaws with that. Given how many patterns you need, players are most likely to obtain them in the most efficient way possible. That means either grinding out the plat and buying them(the easiest and simplest method, since it doesn't even require a group), or by running the quickest and easiest adventure repeatedly. In the case of buying all the patterns with plat, it in no way contributes to improving your own skill or character, since plat can be obtained through various non-combat means, including selling CREDD. In the case of repeating easy adventures, the player is not having their skills challenged in the slightest, as the content they're farming is most likely far below the skill and gear levels required for raiding.In the case of farming gear for better rune slots or other upgrades, it's already well established that crafted gear and/or PVP equipment completely outclasses vet adventure and dungeon gear, and even some raid level drops. And crafting can be done without taking ANY steps on the attunement path(although it has it's own limiting factors in the form of daily tokens).Any way you look at it, it's forcing players to do something that has nothing what-so-ever to do with improving their character or their skills, or getting them prepared for raiding. Which in turn makes me wonder why this step even exists at all. | |} ---- I... I'm sorry... you took the time to type all that, but it's all based on you misunderstanding my post. :unsure: I completely agree with everything you wrote. My point, however, was that the 300 pattern thing doesn't fit in with the rest of the game, which is grindy, but always grindy progression. I wrote this as an argument to support my view that Carbine put in such a requirement to buy polishing time for the unfinished Datascape, not (as you suggested was more likely) because they love the idea. | |} ---- If you can't farm up 20p by the time you're finished with the 20 man, I don't know what to tell you. Plenty of us are at triple digits in plat that didn't exploit anything or buy/resell CREDD. Currency in this game is not hard to get, at all, especially since xp=gold once you hit the EG cap. | |} ---- ---- The initial attunement makes sense. Prepping for datascape doesn't sound like it does (obviously, I'm not there yet). But logically, the "attunement" check to make sure you can clear a 40 man raid should be the 20-man raid. I think that's what Tenner is saying. At the same time, I don't think it's because it needs more work. I'm not sure they did it because they thought it was a good idea or because they thought it needed more work; I think they were seriously worried somebody would be through the 40 man content by now without another time check. I know they were worried that raiding guilds would blister through the endgame and be at their throats for new raids within a month the way it goes in other games. A bit unfounded; gearing 40 people to the point you can survive in that raid does take some doing. Unless this was their plan to keep people logging in after clearing the 20, I'd assume this was just a way to slow down the raiders so they didn't clear all the content too quickly. I'm with Seraph on this one at least (histrionics aside), this attunement check I don't care about. Clearing the 20 man content with 40 people wearing enough gear to survive in the 40 man content should be "attunement" enough at this stage. First raid attunement serves an important purpose. This is a speed bump. | |} ---- Agreed, i think thats the reasoning for a lot of the gates in this game, there are always those people that take it to the extreme (eg. ones that hit level cap day2) that its impossible to be able to provide enough content. Those gates provide the extra time required to patch things up. | |} ---- ---- ---- Logging in now requires completing all end game content in AION. | |} ---- That's one of the flaws with designing content in such a linear manner, especially when you have no replayability. Even games like FFXIV allow you to gain additional benefits from leveling another class. Giving existing leveling content a reason to revisited and replayed. That's not really within the scope of this thread, however. | |} ---- Scope of what thread? The OP was shit tier, the discussion is actually way more depthy which is pretty rare. One cool thing about Carbine is they've given us a lot of leeway into discussing and helping them reform the game. Right now, the end game is bleeding badly and what you said is completely within the scope of this thread! They need to look at their competition and innovate to stay alive, not rely on a flat gameplay system that went dead during the medieval ages of MMOs. FFXIV has some great elements, as do a lot of the other competition, that Carbine seems to have just completely ignored. Hopefully their bubble gets popped soon, as I want my few remaining game friends to *cupcake*ing stay. | |} ---- Attunement already involves taking steps back even before Datascape - getting silver runs on all the dungeons is a bigger challenge than actually beating the 20 man raid. There are some design reasons for forcing raiders to return to content they've already completed, however. It ensures that the Adventures and Dungeons stay populated, so that newcomers can still find people willing to run the content with them. At least, that's how it works in other MMOs. In Wildstar, people have already been trained not to PUG, so sending people back to redo their premade dungeon runs isn't helping anyone. And even if they were the type of people to pug, they would then have to roll on the item against other people, giving them further incentive not to do so. Finally, even if the system were well designed to allow veterans to populate content that may otherwise become difficult for newcomers to complete, it doesn't stop the fact that collecting 300 of these tokens is just simply not fun at all. Rift is a good example of how to properly set up such a system. Dungeons give tokens to every single person that completes them. There's no attunement system, so raiders instead return to the Dungeons in order to earn tokens to upgrade their raid drops to stronger versions. Wildstar made the unfortunate choice of attaching their content-population system to attunement instead of upgrades, and it's turning into a disaster. | |} ---- ---- How exactly does buying the attunement items from the market prove anything other than I'm good at farming and managing plat? Proof of worthiness needs to come in a form that actually reflects the difficulty of the content you're attempting to access, and not in the form of some mindless repetition that in no way challenges or prepares you for what you're about to face. | |} ---- Mindless repetition has no bearing on the difficulty of the content; doing it is to show you have completed steps. | |} ---- Completed steps which serve WHAT purpose? If the steps involve challenge on a level which ensures that you're actually geared and/or skilled enough for the content, then I agree. If the steps involve mindless, pointless repetition of trivial content, then it has no place being in the attunement process. | |} ----